Traditional Roman Catholic Thoughts

Traditional Roman Catholic Thoughts

Reintroducing Logic and Reason to the Age of Sentimentalism

Catholic Memes

All of the posts under the "Catholic Memes" category.

A Look At the Pro-Choice Mentality (Part One)

The other day on Facebook, I had the pleasure of getting into a debate on the subject of abortion. Unlike most debates that I generally have on Facebook, this one happened to be quite the intense one, and also, I had others who were pro-life commenting. Many times when I get into debates, I notice that it is generally a 3-1 argument in which I am the lonesome pro-lifer. It was refreshing to say the least. I was told by several friends that it was great to see such good arguments coming from the pro-life side.

What started this epic debate? Well, simply put, this picture:

The “Condescending Wonka” Meme is generally used to point out a bad argument. What transpired was an incredibly long debate. Now, I present to you that debate, along with some commentary from myself post-debate. I will comment in parenthesis and in bold. I will assure anonymity the posters and present them with new names. I will also include the gender so you can tell from who’s perspective it is coming from.

Friend 1 M: *eating popcorn* 
Friend 2 M: Sure, you can egg on if you want; it’s an illogical statement as written. It sounds like a man can instigate an abortion via a sex act or something. Also of course your idealistic vision completely ignores a woman being raped and her rapist running off into the night. The man has no further choice in this act of reproduction nor does he probably care.
Mostly this one fails because you’re assuming the situation you want it to be. (Considering this is the reason for why abortion needs to be kept legal, the reality is just the opposite, those who are getting abortions report the reason of rape being only about 2%. See below.)
Myself (Jeff): Friend 2, I hate to rain on your parade, but rape is only the reason in about 2% of abortions. On top of that, women who have been raped and go through with an abortion generally report having the traumatic experience of the rape reopened, whereas women who go through with the pregnancy do not. (Not to mention the fact that we are killing a live person, who is completely innocent of doing anything wrong. The death penalty is opposed for reasons such as ‘what about those who are falsely accused’ or ‘you need to be 100% sure they are guilty of the crime’. Sadly, if the person is guilty of killing another person, they are given more leeway than an innocent unborn baby.)
When you want to stop throwing around illogical arguments that sound all warm and fuzzy on the outside, but which actual real world scenarios do not play in favor to your point of view, then we can continue.
Friend 1 M: I agree with Jeff. Just because a baby was produced from a rape, killing it is not the answer. Two wrongs don’t make a right. There are many couples/families out there that would be willing to provide a loving home to that baby. Why not take the result of a terrible act and turn it into something that will add happiness to another family for the rest of their lives? That seems like a much better situation than being raped and then killing a baby. (Solid point.)

Friend 3 FFemales can asexually reproduce! It’s called parthogenesis. Aphids and reptiles do it all the time (right, because we are aphids or reptiles, my bad). So why don’t you tell me again how rapists financially support a child born from rape? (I’m fairly certain that there are government programs that would pay for healthcare.) Also: the male contribution for a life: That one sperm that one time. Female contribution: Incubate the thing for nine months. (Ah, the “women don’t need a man argument”.) Who has the greater burden? (Obviously women do. I’m not saying that they don’t. But as human beings we need a man and a woman to create a child, despite the amount that liberals are trying to change the natural order of our world. And just because we have science to do it without that interaction, doesn’t make it right. Remember the Nuremberg Trials?)

Friend 2 M: Jeff: I’m not explaining away all abortion, just saying your dorky meme picture isn’t fully encompassing all scenarios because it seems to imply consensual reproduction with a man who will be there to care about it. (I’ll admit its not the best meme, but, the purpose was to disprove one of the more common arguments, not every single one.)

Friend 1 M: It is irrelevant whether or not it is the mother or father’s choice. It should not be a choice period.

Friend 4 M: I’m against abortions, but for killing babies. (He’s trying to be funny. He isn’t.)

Jeff: Friend 4: So is President Obama, at least that’s what he says and how his voting record reflects. (My clever response.)

Friend 3 F: That’s nice if your faith informs you that there shouldn’t be abortions. (Weird, I don’t recall mentioning my faith at all. *Looks up at previous posts*, nope, I didn’t.) Christian Scientists and Jehovah’s witnesses are informed by their faith to reject all medical interventions, but that doesn’t preclude others from seeking life-saving treatments (Okay, not sure what that has to do with anything). Freedom of religion also applies to freedom from other religious views (Here, let me put down what the First Amendment says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF;”). You also have to accept that people who are pro-choice aren’t a bunch of slutty baby-killers, they are informed citizens who read things like peer reviewed research that prove that when women have greater reproductive freedom, society as a whole benefits (Never said they were slutty baby-killers…is your conscience bothering you? Also, there are many peer reviewed research in favor of pro-life views. So, who’s right?). No one is going to force an abortion on people who don’t believe in them, but sorry, you’re not going to use your faith to convince anyone who believes higher uses of contraception and reproductive rights benefit women in the long run of anything different (Seriously, I didn’t even mention my faith, why do you hate faith so much? Also, its interesting that Planned Parenthood never suggests adoption places or alternatives to abortion. Maybe I’m just a cynic.). Because of, you know, that thing called data. (Are you referring to the data that suggests abortion is detrimental to a woman’s health and psychological health, or just the data that supports your point of view?)

Friend 5 F: Burden.  We do it b/c we love them. They make us nauseated and make us crave things and kick our insides and squash our bladders and hurt our backs and stretch out our former bikini bodies and keep us up at night but we love them. They weren’t conceived by their own decision, rape or not. For me, it’s like caring for a loved one who is sick and helpless. An elderly parent doesn’t ask to get cancer or osteoporosis or Parkinson’s disease but we care for them b/c we love them. It isn’t about what’s convenient or easiest for us. (Self-sacrificing love is the purest love that we can offer everyone. Hence why Christ’s sacrifice means so much.)

Friend 6 M: Friend 3, the arguments against abortion, as with all ethical arguments, derive neither from science nor from faith, but from philosophy. You would never say, “Don’t put your religion on me” when it comes to the moral injunction against rape, any more than you would say, “The data demonstrates rape to be morally justified in certain circumstances.” You conveniently ignore the philosophical argument, which is rooted in our concepts of personhood and rights. (Well put.)

Friend 3 FYou conveniently ignore that others’ philosophies differ from yours.

Friend 6 M: Not at all. But I do disagree. 

Friend 6 M: I should say that I do not mean “philosophy” in the colloquial sense of “opinion”, but in the sense of an intellectual discipline and mode of discourse. To be sure, there are philosophers in this sense that are pro-abortion (i.e. Peter Singer), but I have read them and I have good cause for disagreeing.

Friend 4 M: Jeff: I wish you’d told me that sooner. I would have voted for him. (Thankfully, this was his last comment…)

Friend 1 M: Friend 3: you are the first person in this thread to bring up religion. I think for most people, religion has nothing to do with determining whether or not to end the life of a baby. No viable life should be ended on purpose ever. I don’t say that as a Catholic, I say that as a human being. I have been a Catholic my entire life and have just become pro-life over the past couple of years. I have two biological children of my own and have been going through the process of adopting a third for the past year. (But, I thought those children were unwanted? (Sarcasm)) After waiting and meeting other people who have been touched by adoption, I feel that there is no reason for abortion. (There never is.) It is all well and good to teach women about contraceptives and all that but they should also be taught that no contraceptives are 100% and if you choose to have sex and get pregnant, you should have to deal with the consequences. (I get the point here, but a baby isn’t a “consequence”, at least in the sense of it being “bad”.) It would be hard, but life is hard and that is no excuse to kill a baby.

Stay tuned for part two!

Jeff December 17, 2012 2 Comments Permalink

Happy All Saint’s Day

Today is All Saint’s Day, which if you are a Roman Catholic is a Holy Day of Obligation. So, this means that you need to get to Mass today. Otherwise, it is a mortal sin.

All Saint’s Day is one of the last “Holy Days of Obligation” in the United States. I say this because for the last few years, the trend within the United States has been to move Feast Days like this to either the prior or latter Sunday in the hopes that “more people will be able to celebrate it”. This mentality leads to more people thinking that Holy Days don’t matter since they can be moved around. This practice should stop immediately.

So, in short, go to Mass, celebrate all the Saint’s, and have a great day!

Jeff November 1, 2012 Leave A Comment Permalink

Society Should Conform to the Church

“The Church needs to get with the times, they are totally way back in the Middle Ages!”

This is quite often thrown around by those who oppose the Catholic Church and believe they have the authority to dictate their own personal beliefs, otherwise known as liberals.

Yep, I said it, the “l” word. Liberals aren’t big fans of Catholic Orthodoxy, tradition and authority. In fact, they secretly hate the Catholic Church. They are jealous of the Church in how successful it is, even when it is severely limited by government, as it is in China or was in Russia.

See, most liberals don’t believe that God is omnipotent, all-knowing and all-powerful. Heck, I think there are a lot of non-Catholics that think this too, but I digress. For a lot of Protestant churches, the pastor can be fired if the congregation doesn’t like what he is preaching. Or, on the other hand, they get up, and leave their church and go around to various other churches until they find what makes them happy. No longer is the faith taken at what God said, but now the faith is taken more on what is comfortable for the individual. Which is exactly what Jesus preached:

Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” John 6:60

So, instead of actually accepting it, when Jesus asks us if it shocks us (John 6:61), they throw it away and simply keep walking (John 6:66).

Far too often though, this is not just Protestants, but all of those that would rather follow the path well trodden as opposed to the road less traveled. This is why we have Christians, and liberal Catholics who constantly support sex before marriage, pornography, masturbation, gay marriage, abortion, embryonic stem-cell research (which by the way has had absolutely no positive cures found after how many years, compared to adult stem cells (which is 100% approved by Church teaching)), euthanasia, contraception (which is both bad for women’s health and the environment), and the list goes on and on…

Unfortunately, people have no self-control and do not want to sacrifice. This is why there has been such a huge increase in the divorce rate. Love demands sacrifice, and when you can’t sacrifice for your Lord, there is no way in hell that you will sacrifice for some petty human being. Most people today can’t even sacrifice that extra sweet somewhere in the day to shed a few pounds and would be more content taking a pill in order to shove down a couple of more cupcakes.

Another common argument that liberals and progressives like to throw around when they encounter those who actually follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, is something like “you should really think for yourself…(insert crummy logic here)”. Right, because you came up with all of your beliefs on your own? Seriously? I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about being a Catholic. If you say that you are something and go against that, then you really aren’t part of that group. Its kind of like saying that you are a Democrat and vote with the Republicans. The Democrats will basically try to kick you out and label you as a Republican. This happens on the Republican’s side as well.

An even better example would be a Vegan for Meat Eating. Because as we all know, Vegan’s love their meat. If I were to tell you that I am a Vegan who eats meat, you would look at me and say that I was out of my mind. Yet, someone can do the exact same thing within the context of Catholicism, yet we aren’t supposed to bat an eye. They are “thinking Catholics”. Well, call me a “thinking Vegan” then.

What’s interesting is that the Church has what they call “canons”. Before you ask, I know what you are thinking and no, they do not shoot cannon balls, nor are they performed in a pool. Canons are the body of laws and regulations that are made by or adopted by the ecclesiastical authority for the use of the Church. I know, the Church and its rules! But seriously, many complain when it comes to the Church and its rules, but what functioning society or group of people don’t have rules?

We as a country have federal laws that we must obey. Within our state we have state laws we must follow. We even have city and county laws that we have to follow. If you belong to a group you have your own rules or by laws that you must obey. But the Catholic Church, the one authority that Christ left here on Earth to watch over His Church (Matthew 16:18-19) can’t have rules? Frankly, if you don’t like the rules of the group that you are apart of, you are allowed to leave, or worse yet, you are given the boot. The Church has a canon for this, and it probably should be used. Unfortunately, it still does not shoot people out of it

There are far too many people today who say that the Catholic Church is closed minded and is not open to society’s views. If only they themselves were not closed minded to the Church’s beautiful teachings. Society preaches about being open minded, yet look at how closed minded they are. The Church IS open minded. She listens to what others have to say and corrects them when they are wrong. It is society who is closed minded and who hardens their hearts when they hear what they do not want to hear. Man may change, but the Church will not.

Jesus has always been the same person. He was there when life began, there with Moses on Mount Sinai, with Abraham, with His disciples and even to this day. He brings us strength when we are weak. He is food and drink for the soul. He will be through the end of time.

If you like the images, check out Catholic Memes.

Jeff October 9, 2012 1 Comment Permalink

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